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 Sorc upgrade -> blast crits? 
Marky
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Am doing sorc now, as last class. And compared to them all, sorcs are #%$%#, imo.
Sword is too weak to make a dent, blast is too expensive and less effective, certainly at lower ranks.
Poison...again mana issues. And you need C2 always, just to survive.

No immunity, no dispel, no b2, no SH, no SH2, no blind, no gc/uc, and nothing special or unique.
Which makes it unique and special Rolling Eyes

So, how about blast crits? When it crits, your blast explodes to a stronger B2.
Should make things more interesting at least.
When you would cast blast, it may get a crit, or not.

Maybe do the same on poison, for a sorc?
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Offended
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Sorcs are meant to sneak in the shadows.
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Second Leutenant
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Just let them use noble shield.
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chronicxx
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Completely agree sorc needs an upgrade. Slooow Leveling. Not really why sneaking is the best option to make them viable. Guess that speaks for itself. Have to hide because you can't even do trash mobs effectively. Always need to regen mana even with 600+ mana. Every 2 to 3 groups of 10 to 13. Then finally you get c2 after that Leveling grind to be punished with an even larger mana consumption and Slooow regen. Still.

Sorc needs 1 fix in my opinion. The ability to regen mana considerably faster in actual combat.


Hopefully.someone will chime in now with the drugs and gear guide.
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Gambit
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Sorc is very good at penting, but for something like AT not so much. I never had mana issues on sorc because conc and having ankh to swap to gave me more than enough mana. Always can fix that with alchemy, although it isn't as mandatory as it is with seyan.

You could either lean into that pent-centric focus or try to alleviate their weakness in other areas. Marky's suggestion is a good start for the latter, and for the former I'd throw out the ability to have +1 the max number of comp thralls. Heck give every sorc spell a tiny chance to crit an aoe version. When you are down to just 8 AT mobs I'd probably roll the dice on a 5% chance to aoe stun everything long enough to make it only 5 enemies Razz

What would a poison crit look like though, just a max power instance of Poison or something spicier?
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Marky
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As I moved on with my sorc, getting to a high rank, and lateron RB-ing, all came together for my sorc.
Equiping spell gear, maxing c2, meditate, concentrate, stun and blast gets the job done.
My fastest AT-char is a sorc, so far (hara and warrior close 2nds, hara might be as quick when using b1, not b2). But it takes ages to get there.
And while getting there, sorc is fairly weak and a drag, to me.
I still think crits can make life a little more fun at least.

I would recommend sorc to be used as a 2nd or 3rd char, so you can feed it with drugs and gear. Starting out, with weak gear and such, makes it slow and annoying often.

A special sorc shield might be a nice compensation, to add some balance at ltcol or so.
With some extra meditate/concentrate, for example. Or making stun and poison mods a bit higher, so they can become useful sooner.

A sorc maxes out the useful stuff at earl. Blast is too expensive too use for a long time.
Sorc is a blue cape. Perhaps reduce exp cost on meditate and concentrate? Or at least reduce b1 cost?
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Lordlava
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Does anyone use Compulse on Sorc?

Go into one higher pent area, find the 3 highest rank on that area and compulse them
Spell them up then jump back down one rank and dominate the region.

30 mins later repeat.
Don't forget to transfer them b4 30 minutes is up to get the exp.

Is that not viable?

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Drink
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Lordlava wrote:
Does anyone use Compulse on Sorc?

Go into one higher pent area, find the 3 highest rank on that area and compulse them
Spell them up then jump back down one rank and dominate the region.

30 mins later repeat.
Don't forget to transfer them b4 30 minutes is up to get the exp.

Is that not viable?


Comp 3 spell them, use them as magnets/distractions around the place while u run and get pents.
Later in game (UW's) they are useless as even spelled up they are stun magnets.

in UW's you would run around on stealth (never c2) and compulse ones you see to make other targets run at them AND KILL THEM.
You dont want to spell them, you dont want to curse2 for them, you want them to be a distraction and then die so you can compulse again.

If you are surrounded you comp 1 and continue running.


How to Help Sorcs:
#1 Mana Issues
Lower Meditate cost and raise its base from 60 to 105?
Warriors get 105 Regenerate, give Sorcs 105 Med (with the cheaper meditate cost).
Merc meditate cost is at 9 Difficulty, highest skill in the game in raise cost (even a Temps spells are 7).
Why? because it was capped at 15 for Merc and never got expensive, but then sorc comes round and maxes at 60 while you pay through the teeth for meditate.
This will help lower level sorcs not be as mana starved.

#2 Dispel Magic
If they get cursed, they eat it for the 2minutes.
Sorcs dont have Immunity so curse is crippling, the only other class with no Immune is Harak who can remove it if they ever get out of stun.
Blue cape should get dispell imo.

#3 Immunity?
Unsure on this one.
Could give Mercenaries 15 max Immunity, so if you go warrior you then unlock it to 105.
If you stay Sorcerer you have 15max immunity

Sorcs can do Fldmar AT very fast by C2/Poison/Stun/Blast/Blast = instant 5 dead, repeat combo twice and a rooms clear.
Penting in UW's they are prob the fastest pent class due to comp/running and stealth.
They shouldn't ever be cursed from strongs as they are a very high resistance class with 105 base res + uber bless.

Can see people 'fightback'ing on a sorc early on, but mid/late game this should be off, like a harakim you want fightback off and you only want to be casting spells.
Why? Your weapon should be soulstoned, adding +15 stun or resistance is huge.

On AH i have 135AV without MS, Sorcs get this level of spells (if geared they get +30mod more) so 145ish AV.
140AV and with C/C2 i don't see them needing MS.

Issue early with c2 spam/mana problems can be fixed with med
If damage still sucks could make poison SPELL bypass immunity?

Lava can you confirm Poison works for DW applying?
From memory when testing it goes off Spellpower AND Ignores Immunity.
So a Warrior has the highest Poison when DW procs.
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Marky
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Compulse penting on a sorc:

Grab 3 from a higher area means you go there slowly, takes time, then grab 3 decent ones, bring them back, keep them alive.
I have seen them die often enough when I didn't support them with c2. So running around and grabbing pents only lasts a short time.
Then you also have to keep track of time for spells and time for transfer.
Do this on a gpot, then you probably use the gpot to get the high ones. By the time you can transfer them, you already need to use your 2nd gpot. And not THAT much exp to show for it. Then waste more time grabbing new ones.
And when the 3 compulses get surrounded, and you run away to grab some more pents, then you will be fighting solo anyways. So you can't raise compulse and not focus on solo fighting. With some bad luck, someone solves right at that point, you need to kill lots of gargs to get back to your compulses, to see only 1 is left, at 10%.

So...sure, some people make it work. And it can be fun.
In the right spot, with quick solving pents, it can speed up things very well.

About Drinks post:
For mere mortals this won't work Razz A new player, no alts, will not be able to do that for a very long time.
No full gear, no dragon gear, no ss-ed gear. That comes much later, quite often.

The mana issues that Drink mentions. I suggest making concentrate cheap, instead of the current expensive version. Since you need to raise a lot of spells to make them work, you have to keep making choices. That's for a sorc around col to noble very true.
Getting a break on mana issues would help, and would fit a sorc.
Drink suggests no fightback on a sorc. With low AV, low sword skill, this means you need a high curse to keep landing. Again, mana issues. Works for RB2 sorc with full gear (and a bit sooner), but not for a new sorc.

Dispel and immunity:
No immunity and low AV means you are a very easy victim for gettings cursed, stunned and then blasted to bits.
Dispel would make them like a hara, too much of a copy, I would say.
But a little immunity could go a long way.
Perhaps have sorcs get a sorc shield (like necro sword) that grants them some immunity? Maybe add concentrate (see mana issues before) and 60 str, agi requirements.

A new spell that works like harden, but from mana, that gives immunity for some time, would be nice too.
But...sorcs have a lot of things to raise as it is.
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chronicxx
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Compulsing a rank higher and bringing them down

100+100+100+(15x3+15x3+35x3)= 495mana. There's your 3 guys.

Now cast c2 once. Mana bankrupt. Do some walking to the lower area. More than 8 mins pass with a mix of walking so in that time mana regen is retarded to nothing. By the time you need to spell them again you just never Have enough. I never compulse 3 because the realistic cost of the mana is through the roof.
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Second Leutenant
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Compulse is only good for Prison or Mtns. If itís going to be a primary skill, then it needs to be more in line like Warcry for Warrior and actually usable.
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Marky
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if there wouldn't be a 30min timer for a sorc on his compulses, it would make a big difference.
The 495 math is done without concentrate. Getting concentrate up high to make a real difference, and raising mana high, is costly.
Of course not at the end game, when you have all kinds of bonus gear and can get exp fairly quick.
But the part before that is quite a struggle.

To some extend you could also just look as sorc being a good advanced (2nd/3rd) character, but not one to start with.
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chronicxx
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I think concentrate is a great skill but you need to rank and time it takes raise it) (along all the other stuff to raise at the same time. This can cross 1 or even 2 rank rises. That's a lot of gameplay. Its even with concentrate your not removing hundreds of mana per spell cycle. The difference is about 45. Not exactly ground breaking stuff.

Sorc is also the balance cost of raising concentrate from its later Base to max. Spend it on mana is.cheaper.

You could remove.concentrate all together and just lower overall mana cost. It's the same result. Or could be.

Would be nice if concentrate lowered your loss of focus chances. As well. Kind of makes sense to the Sorc as your background comes from melee. Your used being able to concentrate literally better because it's a normalised. Environment for a melee user. Which is why I suggested regegening mana faster in melee. It also reflects the hara gc thing.hara casts gc melees. Sorc is orange enough and I've always thought the class should be that the Sorc Is the hara and the gc combined into 1. Melee magic user. Just my imagination.
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Firelance
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I've tossed a bunch of ideas around for Sorcerers as I also believe them to be a magic based melee hybrid, as opposed to simply a weaker Arch Harakim.

I had proposed things such as;
75 base sword RB0, 85 base at RB1, 90 base at RB2.

New skill called Immolation - active AOE DPS skill that is turned on like Harden and drains mana. Range would be short, around 3 tiles out and would work with Poison. Unique to Sorcerer.

Poison redesign - change dual wield poison procs to bleed to allow isolation of the poison skill to refine the power range.

Potentially add MS, however this isn't really needed because they can achieve a relatively decent AV when maxed.

Tossed around the idea of dispel... Blue capes should get dispel.
Reduced meditate difficulty and increased base.

A lot of this rubs some people the wrong way simply due to everyone being accustomed to stun and run gameplay as a sorcerer.

I wouldn't be opposed to Compulse being removed entirely from the game, but I understand that would upset some folks as well because the skill is fun... Just trivializes a lot of the content.

Obviously adjustments could be made... But yeah, sorcerer's in my head have always been a magic focused melee hybrid.

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Second Leutenant
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Why not just make them the same as Warrior instead of Warcry and Stun, they get B2 and Compulse. Technically a merc is a merc, you are only determining what their main attack vectors are. Sorc doesnít get ms because Warrior doesnít have it. Warrior has Stun and Warcry,so honestly just duplicate the stats, even let them wear Tit armor and DW if they want. I just see it as the are technically the same, just how to you want to play, more Fighter style or more Spell style.
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